Is this the end? Are chains going to be nerfed?

Dax · Post by **Dax** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 2:32 am

Great, just before I hit the great big 200 mark.

This is where we are making the greatest changes. In a nutshell, these are the new minimums and maximums:

Vassal-to-patron pass-up will have a minimum of 25% of earned XP, and a maximum of 90% of earned XP. Under the old system, the minimum was about 9% of earned XP, and the effective maximum was somewhere near 44% of earned XP.
Patron-to-grandpatron pass-up will have a minimum of 0% of XP passed-up by the patronâ€™s vassal, and a maximum of 10% of passed-up XP. Under the old system, the minimum was about 30% and the maximum was about 94%.

Heatmiser · Post by **Heatmiser** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 5:51 am

No, its not the end. They will without a doubt be much less productive however. Your management team has been working to set up a true highout put chain and have not completely abandoned that idea as we've put 8 pages of debate into it.

With these changes however, its obvious that this system will not be the most efficient model so we are also devising some other models that could at the bare minimum be more efficient than the linear model or at best, be even more productive.

A lot is up in the air right now, but rest assured clanmates, your chains are not falling apart.

Compadre · Post by **Compadre** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 6:21 am

while it may seem like chains are in trouble I'm sure once the feb patch comes out and numbers are run we will find a way of chaining that will be comparable to what we have now.

Dax · Post by **Dax** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 6:54 am

The changes are coming as soon as Feb? I'm going between this and 2 college papers, and I don't know which is more stressful. :(

When are they going to hike up the prices?

Vlad · Post by **Vlad** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 7:46 am

hehe even the patch I am a loyal LD vassal !!

Oof · Post by **Oof** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 11:51 am

February 1, the rate goes up 3 USD a month. With the February patch, the changes to the new allegiance system go into effect.

Trekman · Post by **Trekman** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 4:34 pm

Chains in general (not just ours) will be reconstructured, but not cancelled.
Chain Policies will change, Quota definitions will be changed.

With ideal Loyalty/Leadership a patron gets 90% XP from each direct vassal, but nothing from grand-vassals and below.

So if you flatten the chain structure from 1:1 (one chainvassal) to a pyramid like for instance 4:1 (four vassals give the maximum bonus for Leadership) in theory you can gain more XP as in the old system, especially in lower levels.

Quota Definitions will have to be changed to absolute numbers because the 93.75% passthrough is gone.
This new structure and the "absolute" quota makes it easier to calculate/estimate the XP you can expect per week/month.

The higher the aimed XP output the more "chain"-vassals you have to have. Extreme chains will probably flatten to 12 vassals with the same quota (which is probably only reasonable in the 126+ segment), resulting in more or less "mini-chains" to powerlevel one toon.

In another post I had the idea of "circular mini chains". One patron with X vassals gets feeded for some time (with fixed quota or not), then one of the vassals is becoming the patron for the next period and so on.
Although this system neglects any Loyalty bonus it is still viable.

Culticon · Post by **Culticon** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 8:56 pm

Also people with 2 accounts and mutiple computers will have a definate advantage over everyone else in the exp making department. I think this is a bad thing that makes this really bad idea for people who cannot exploit the new system in this way. I won't have a problem

So basically we are trading one bad system for another. It will also get you to buy more accounts

Rathgryn · Post by **Rathgryn** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 9:21 pm

To get that max passup from your 4 vassals though, they will probably have to have very high loyalty and be sworn to you for a long time.

Also, you will have to have a high leadership, and most people in the chain don't even have leadership trained.

Edit: This means that if you have several guys leveling one toon (in a rotation type situation), it might be months before the passup reaches maximum and if it takes that long to really powerlevel him, most people won't wait around for their turn. If it takes 3 months to get max xp passup from vassals, and one guy is getting it from 4 vassals, then they switch for another 3 months, the guy that is last in line will wait a whole year just to be put to the top of the rotation.

Wimp Lo · Post by **Wimp Lo** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 11:13 pm

I hope whatever solution is arrived at will allow us to keep our rank since I now have a number of armor Items that I have to have high rank for.

I would think the rotation would work somewhat decently since the minimum will be 25% passup which is not unlike the current passup you see from the hunter to his patron now. With decent loyalty and leadership you would think that the actual passup will be above 25% even for a new vassal. So if you have 4 vassals all hunting for 100 mil xp a week you would still get a minimum of 100 mil a week passup. Obviously that number is not uber but might still make it worth the time to "take turns" so to speak.

Have to admit I am bummed to see this change.

Wimp Lo

Kazsam · Post by **Kazsam** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 11:18 pm

Oops RANK good point wimp

and bad

Post by **Panzerfaust** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 11:24 pm

We're still working on a plan that will be as pain free as possible. What I do see happening is a very strict quota -- with no pass thru, or atleast very little, it leaves no room for slacking, since the pass thru all but evaporates skipping one person. Nice thing is, chain placement will not matter at all.

Coji · Post by **Coji** » Wed Jan 14, 2004 5:32 am

WAAA! what

i have to pay more and receive less xp? man what donkeys. so much for being a King.

acaddict · Post by **acaddict** » Fri Jan 16, 2004 6:52 am

I hunt with my grand vassals very often and would get ok xp by doing this! If this happens, I may end up just logging on to say hi to people I know and then just playing another game.

Feeling this way after turbine nurfed everything already and now they just want to wipe everything out and start over! What BS!

Lancelore · Post by **Lancelore** » Fri Jan 16, 2004 11:43 am

Before writing down my feelings about this subject, I want to make clear that I have nothing against chains. If you have fun by using this system, fine. It is a real challence to make the 200 lvl.
And how you can do it without a chain, I really don't know, hehehe.

On the other hand, was it ever ment to be this way? I don't think so. Just take the counter stopping at 126.
I agree that clever devs looks to the wishes of the players en implant some of their ideas. However the game has reached a point that the growth of some players is not controleble anymore. Or should we have heavier stuff more and more? Where will this end? So I can imagine that the devs try to slow down the big growth.

My point is, try to look at it with an overall vieuw. The game has to be playeble for everyone. And it is wrong (arrogant) to think that all depends on high levels.

I am convinced that the change will take away some fun for high level chain players. And the fun matters. That is why I hope these players will (re)discover the other ways of fun again.

Lancelore