why dont we?

Lorno · Post by **Lorno** » Mon Jul 07, 2003 12:11 am

have wimp tinker at the top of the OH at the VERY top. and let him not have to worry about hunting for the qouta. or let him slide on it a little or something..

wimp does so much tinkering for this clan. and every other one out there and he could use the exp more then people who play once a month? if that?

well what do you guys think about this?

Post by **Panzerfaust** » Mon Jul 07, 2003 12:45 am

not a good idea. The FC and OH are performance based. We can't give someone a free ride no matter how much we like them. If that were the case, the buff bots, portal bots would be afforded the same thing.

luang · Post by **luang** » Mon Jul 07, 2003 6:57 am

I do understand your concern, Panzerfaust.

But I really think

1. LD can use a *great* tinkerer; even more so with next patch's upgrade of tinkering.

2. Wimp does a great job and sacrifices a lot of time.

Why don't we cast a vote on this issue ?

Aero · Post by **Aero** » Mon Jul 07, 2003 8:19 am

Yea, that would be something like what goes on at LSD. She will put someone higher up in the chain just because she like's him. When others ask about it, she tells them that she makes the rules and that is that.

Some other chain leaders will put 10 to 12 toons up top of the chain just to level them fast even though they may or may not hunt (bots/friends, etc).

Last Dynasty is a truly great clan because this does not happen here. I like how Panzerfaust put it.... "performance based."

Wimp Lo · Post by **Wimp Lo** » Mon Jul 07, 2003 10:38 am

Thank you for the thought Lorno, and the support luang - I really appreciate it.

I have always hunted for my quota, and I think I could commit to that no matter where I am in the OH - so in that sense it would not be a matter of a free ride.

Being higher up in the OH would definitely allow me to boost my skills higher more quickly than I can at the level of the OH that I am in now. I would not be opposed to this if the OH as a whole would support it. But I really don't want to become a point of contention within the clan, so it would need to be a pretty strong show of support for the idea else I think it is best to leave things as is.

The biggest difference between me and the bots you mention, Panzer, is that I am always at the keyboard whether it is hunting or tinking. This means I definitely give up time for doing other things in the game to provide a service for the whole server. I am pretty sure that the level I do this at is not replicated by anyone else on the server at this point - for any type of service.

Not saying that makes me better, just unique

And aero, this would not be a matter of the monarch playing favorites, it definitely would need to be the OH members deciding on it. If many feel the way you do then it wouldn't happen.

Wimp Lo

luang · Post by **luang** » Mon Jul 07, 2003 11:26 am

That's why I said we should cast a vote, Wimp.

And Aero, "performance based" ? I would call tinking my xbow to 186% a pretty darn good performance.

Phade · Post by **Phade** » Mon Jul 07, 2003 11:47 am

While this would be a great thing for wimp and his clients, (and my bow

) I think that this would cause way too much trouble and disention among the chain to make it a viable option.

Post by **Panzerfaust** » Mon Jul 07, 2003 12:17 pm

The biggest difference between me and the bots you mention, Panzer, is that I am always at the keyboard whether it is hunting or tinking. This means I definitely give up time for doing other things in the game to provide a service for the whole server. I am pretty sure that the level I do this at is not replicated by anyone else on the server at this point - for any type of service

I'm not down playing your role to the server. I personally have never used Wimp to tink anything for me. I created my own mule for this. However, running a buff bot takes up a machine, bandwidth, personal time to code it, and the subscription fee. To put it in perspective, don't log Wimp Tinker in for a week and see if you get public reaming. If the buff bots go down for an hour, my PM box is full and when I log in, I have tells and irc out the ying yang. The difference is, the buff bots only service the clan.

Lucky Strike · Post by **Lucky Strike** » Mon Jul 07, 2003 12:50 pm

I think possibly you are all wrong. If you look at the chain stats, being higher up in the OH chain means LESS (oh yes, look at it) XP then being lower in the chain. In reality, he may not want to be higher.

Lorno · Post by **Lorno** » Mon Jul 07, 2003 8:59 pm

The FC and OH are performance based. We can't give someone a free ride no matter how much we like them.

panzer said....

im not trying to start a fight..but what about the people above the OH like naka....Youkay...whiskee? why cant he be put up there.. they are not in the chain but get to benifit from it correct?

sinnistar bow' · Post by **sinnistar bow'** » Mon Jul 07, 2003 10:06 pm

Hi all, lets everyone breath deep, i like the democratic option, A vote would could work maybe the admin's could place him in a more benificial spot:) and the service that wimp provide's for our clan and the hundreds of others outside are clan is unreplacable:)

That bieng said I know for fact that wimp make's out handsomely on all the tinks he has done for me, not sure about the rest but heheh i am pretty sure he do's o.k

Wimp Lo · Post by **Wimp Lo** » Mon Jul 07, 2003 10:12 pm

I definitely don't want to cause dissension

Let's leave well enough alone, there is no doubt that the FC has helped tinker get where he is and will help him get to maxed skills eventually. It is all just a matter of time.

Panz makes a good point about people with buffbots footing an extra bill to make that happen as well as all the supplies it takes to run them etc. It is certainly a commitment to keep one of them running and I didn't mean to make light of that commitment.

Again, thankyou for the thought Lorno

Wimp Lo

Lagmatic · Post by **Lagmatic** » Mon Jul 07, 2003 10:15 pm

People have tried this many times in many chains, and it always turns out badly.

Oof · Post by **Oof** » Tue Jul 08, 2003 12:50 am

It looks like this idea, while good-intentioned but probably not a good idea, is dying down. I'm only now getting the time to post a reply, so my input may be a little late but here it goes nonetheless.

Lorno wrote:

wimp does so much tinkering for this clan. and every other one out there and he could use the exp more then people who play once a month? if that?

I am assuming you are generalizing here. If we have people who only play once a month I guarantee they would be long-gone from the chain. If you are referencing Naka and Youkay, let Wimp (or anyone) go form their own monarchy and then they can reap the rewards of their labors.

Now, for the reasons I think placing anyone at the top of the chain for more XP is a bad idea (in no particular order):

1 ) Lagmatic hit it pretty well when he said

People have tried this many times in many chains, and it always turns out badly.

2 ) The chain IS a reward for performance environment. The performance is measured in XP generated, not in services provided to others. How can one quantity the relative value of tinkering services, buff bots services, quest leader services, the duties performed for free by the High Council members, etc.? The list doesn't end, and so you can't start down that list.

3 ) The top of the chain is NOT the best place for XP. Kazsam averages 80 million per day. Wimp Tinker, currently next to the bottom in the OH, averages 30 million per day. Everyone starts out at the bottom in the OH; everyone moves up as new people enter. Move up 8 people from Wimp and Acaddict is averaging 67 million per day. Move up one more person and Ian Mac is averaging 89 million per day. 9 people up from Wimp, and people are making more than the top of the chain pulls in. If you move 41 spots up from Wimp, there you have Kazsam her 80 million per day. The people between Ian Mac and Kazsam pulls anywhere from 89 million per day to 118 million per day.

If it's XP one is after, the middle section of the chain is the place to be.

4 ) Lots of people offer lots of skills and services to the monarchy. Panzer already mentioned the buff bots. This is probalby a good time to publish the short list of LD tinker skills too.

NAME SKILL
ARMOR TINKER
Wimp Tinker 472
Shindhi 465
Steelhead 441
Helter Smelter 401
Cameloo Yao 372

ITEM TINKER
Ian Mac 455
Muneman 437
Heatmiser 436
Thray 420
Flesh Puppet 414

MAGIC TINKER
Wimp Tinker 465
Steelhead 450
Mage Lazerline 440
Pallal 403
Stargren Dragoon 385

WEAPON TINKER
Kitoko 493
Wimp Tinker 472
Molybdenum 415
Cameloo Yao 413
only four weapon tinkers listed

These are only the tinkers listed in the Food Chain. The Casual Chain has several very strong tinkers and mules also.

Now, I don't have anything against Wimp Tinker at all, he seems like a really nice person behind the keyboard. One of the problems with putting ANYONE above a chain based on anything other than performance is that it opens a Pandora's Box. Who is the next person who is suggested that they could benefit from preferential placement? Once you start, you can't stop.

Like I mentioned in the beginning of this post, the suggestion was very well-intentioned, but the potential problems and headaches it would cause simply aren't worth it.

Not to mention that Wimp Tinker will realize more XP from staying in the middle of the chain.

We just need to have a few more insertions and then his XP will start to roll.