Leadership?????????????????????????

acaddict · Post by **acaddict** » Sat Nov 15, 2003 8:12 am

One thing we should be watching for is leadership on characters before we give orders to remove someone.

The reason someone may be failing may be because their patron is failing at the leadership department. This would make it very difficult for someone to make up a debt if someone had a leadership of 100.

Just something to look at! Keep yur eye on that before announcements to get chained around!

Thanx managers!!!!!!!!

grimly fiendish · Post by **grimly fiendish** » Sat Nov 15, 2003 1:12 pm

i thought you couldnt be in the chain unless ya had high leadership or 12 vassals?

Phade · Post by **Phade** » Sat Nov 15, 2003 1:16 pm

Leadership on a character will only affect that character, it shouldnt' affect the person below him/her in the chain.

I could be wrong however, so lets wait for the Math wiz to come on here and give us some numbers

/e sits and waits for Oof

Oof · Post by **Oof** » Sat Nov 15, 2003 6:01 pm

Tag for later.

acaddict · Post by **acaddict** » Sun Nov 16, 2003 2:45 am

That is correct Grim, but is only monitored when one is applying for one of the chains.

After people are in, they could loose some vassals and end up with very very low leadership not allowing the correct pass through and leaving some one failing that would not be failing if their patron had the requirement.

Oof · Post by **Oof** » Sun Nov 16, 2003 5:25 am

Bah! I had a detailed answer typed out and the session timed out on me. I'll try to answer it again tomorrow. It's late here now and I'm tired.

The short version though, is that a patron's leadership (or loyalty) skill will NOT impact his or her vassal's status, it will only make meeting quota for the character with the low leader/loyalty very hard.

Letting your leadership drop way down can put a character millions into debt in just one night, but will not affect the vassal at all. It can affect the chain every place above the character with low leadership, but not below that character.

A better answer is forthcoming, if I can remembe what I said.

brackatees · Post by **brackatees** » Sun Nov 16, 2003 7:49 pm

Acaddict said, The reason someone may be failing may be because their 'PATRON' is failing at the leadership department. This would make it very difficult for someone to make up a debt if someone had a leadership of 100.

so he was refering to the ppl above someone w/o leader, Im Guessing thats what he was referring to.

is there someone that checks for these things in the stats if ppl are worried about them. ? ... these things being: ppl w/ low -no leadership & under 10 vass's that dont make their quota ? is that what this threads about ?
if not, ignore. im getting more then enough xp

Thnx everyone.

Trekman · Post by **Trekman** » Mon Nov 17, 2003 12:37 pm

Leadership determines how many percent of vassal-XP actually are added to the Total XP, regardless of the vassals' Loyalty.
Loyalty determines how many percent of vassal-XP and self-produced XP are passed up to the patron, regardless of the patron's Leadership.

In the beginning I had a hard time understanding why XP flow is so dependent on 2 people's numbers although the numbers themselves are not related to each other. While we probably all know about the relevant numbers and percentages, it is interesting to look how it actually works (ignoring the different meanings of Loyalty for now).

The easiest way to figure it out is to imagine some sort of "pool" between a patron and all his vassals.
Each vassal pumps XP into that pool depending on his Loyalty, regardless of the other vassals and no matter how many XP the patron will pull out of the pool.
The patron takes XP out of the pool depending on his Leadership, no matter how the XP came into the pool.
From a certain Leadership level upwards the patron gains a percentage-based bonus, so he gets more XP from the pool than all his vassals pushed. This is the "Leadership Bonus" that caps at 25% (at calculated Leadership 163), giving the patron 125% of all vassal-XP.

The XP *not* pulled by the patron (due to low Leadership) are just vanishing. Pulling less from the pool automatically means passing through less XP, this is the reason for the infamous "Leadership Bottleneck".

Regarding XP-chains there are two fundamental ways to calculate quota. One is based on XP actually received from the pool, the other is based on the chain-vassal's input into the pool.
The first method obviously has flaws - the less Leadership I have, the less XP I receive - the less XP I have to produce to meet quota.
Furthermore the efficiency of my chain vassal is measured on my XP income which is unfair because he cannot influence my Leadership.
This is the case that accadict spoke of.

But as far as I know we use the second method. I am measured by how much I push into the pool above me, *not* compared to what I actually pulled out (depending on my Leadership) but to what my chain-vassal pushed into the pool below me. Therefore it is in my very own interest to keep Leadership at 163 so I have the 25%-advantage of the Leadership Bonus. If I fail to keep Leadership up I punish myself by getting less XP, hence having to produce more myself to keep up with the XP my chain-vassal pushed into the pool. His chain productivity is not harmed by that, the less Leadership I have the more likely *I* will fail quota.

"Mathematically" it is not necessary to have Leadership 163 + Loyalty 200 = pass-through 93.75% to pass quota (if you are a hard XP worker

)
But the pass-through is also active when you are not logged in. Therefore the "maxed-capped Leadership" of 163 is a prerequisite to join any chain, simply to optimize "automatic XP flow" regardless of any quota.

brackatees · Post by **brackatees** » Mon Nov 17, 2003 7:49 pm

Good explaination !

i wonder if an xp pool is warm or cold?

Trekman · Post by **Trekman** » Mon Nov 17, 2003 8:36 pm

brackatees wrote:i wonder if an xp pool is warm or cold?

Depends how far you are behind quota

Oof · Post by **Oof** » Tue Nov 18, 2003 2:19 am

Good point Trekman.

Thank you for writing up such a nice explanation of leadership and loyalty vs XP. I was sitting down to write something on the topic and you had already done so.

The XP calculations for the chain are based on each person's actual, real contribution INTO the XP pool. I will put into my patron's XP pool however much XP I add. The higher my loyalty skill is, the more XP I put into my patron's pool. What I add isn't affected either way by my patron's leadership.

The same thing goes for my vassal. Now, here's the kicker on the leadership discussion. The database does it's calculations based on the ASSUMPTION that people maintain the required leadership and loyalty numbers. It doesn't care whether they do or not, because the number required to make quota is based on having the maximum automatic passthrough. If I were to let my leadership skill drop, it wouldn't affect my vassal at all. What it would do is it would make it very hard for me to make quota.