Raise that Loyalty Notice (again)

Podunkmer · Post by **Podunkmer** » Tue Jun 24, 2003 8:54 pm

Nakamuro Zataki wrote:290 buffed loyalty gave 29.5% to patron (formula said 29.1%), with leadership bonus that would be 36.9%. I checked numbers for vassal xp, so that has been filtered out.

It is possible that without the time bonus the numbers should be 3.5% per 100 loyalty, anyone got a mule that can check that?

(Brasklapp : I am hungry, so numbers could be wrong)

I PM'd the numbers of a test I did to Oof a few weeks ago, but I'm almost certain I managed to pass up about 45% of the XP I hunted for (not counting the 125% on the patron's side) with 250 buffed loyalty and over 240 hours sworn.

Nakamuro Zataki · Post by **Nakamuro Zataki** » Tue Jun 24, 2003 8:57 pm

Could you send me those numbers too?

Delta.TotalXP
Delta.PatronXP
Delta.VassalXP (from all vassals, not just keyvassal)

Hopefully I am wrong.

Flanker · Post by **Flanker** » Sun Jun 29, 2003 11:15 am

bumpity lets have an update Oof

Oof · Post by **Oof** » Wed Jul 02, 2003 2:30 am

The July 01, 2003 Update to the Loyalty List

Top 20 Loyalty

Number Name Loyalty
01 ) Con artist 142 288
02 ) Jack Able 139 278
03 ) Khaz-Modaan 175 273
04 ) I B Six U B Nine 154 264
05 ) Pallal 92 264
06 ) Anca 179 260
07 ) Qa'zienn al-Tobarrr 165 258
08 ) Jock Ewing 162 255
09 ) Keshi 98 253
10 ) Oof 178 251
11 ) Trekman the Axeman 176 250
12 ) Dangerous Lady 172 250
13 ) Town Crier 167 250
14 ) Dave Mustaine 173 250
15 ) Molybdenum 91 249
16 ) Dorzin 88 249
17 ) C l o u d 184 248
18 ) Flanker 158 244
19 ) Xevier 120 244
20 ) Flesh Puppet 159 244

Honorable Mention

21 ) Coji 172 242
22 ) Mage lazerline 160 240
23 ) Kazsam 189 240
24 ) Iffah 152 240
25 ) Lagmatic 167 240
26 ) Thorgrim 179 240
27 ) El-Tazar 164 240

Special Kudos go to:

Khaz-Modaan, who was #1 last time with a loyalty of 271, bumped his another 2 points to 273, probably thinking that would secure his lead.

Jack Able, who was knocked out of the leader's spot last time by Khaz, bumped his loyalty by 8, to a loyalty of 278, probably thinking that would best that loyalty upstart Khaz-Modaan and regain the leading spot.

Con artist, who was #19 last time, rocketed his loyalty up 48 points from a nice and respectable 240 to an Ubar 288. Talk about blowing some doors off on his way past! Congrats to you Con, and thanks from everyone above you in the chain. That is a Major investment in Loyalty in just a short while. Do you need a patron?

Flanker · Post by **Flanker** » Thu Jul 03, 2003 10:14 am

WHOOT

Nice numbers man that is great. We are getting some serious loyalty points racking up there.

Great job Con Artist, that is a huge jump an a lot of xp to devote to loyalty

BIG BIG GRATS to you all

Cheers

Seabrook · Post by **Seabrook** » Thu Jul 03, 2003 12:09 pm

So I don't have to read all seven pages.

I have base loyalty of 221, what is my passup from my hunting? I can make 100 million a night on a good night, so use that.

What is my passup with partron bonus and without?

And if I dump my 1 billion unassigned into it, say I get to 260 base, what is my passup? With and without bonus.

I want to see how much of a difference it makes.

Dave_Mustaine · Post by **Dave_Mustaine** » Thu Jul 03, 2003 4:52 pm

It's about a 3% difference. So on a 100 mill night, you'd pass up an extra 3 mill.

Pee-Wee · Post by **Pee-Wee** » Thu Jul 03, 2003 4:57 pm

Ok, I just found this post and now I'm ticked....

I had it specialized and way up there at one point, till, quite a number of people, laughed and said "It caps", you wasted your Skill Cred's.

Now....

Are you telling me it DOES cap on how much XP I pull from vassals, but does not cap on how much I pass UP to my patron??

I need to go respec it again. Man, and I had it way on up there.

Oof · Post by **Oof** » Thu Jul 03, 2003 5:04 pm

Here goes:

The formula is supposedly 8.9% + 7% per 100 points of loyalty. The bonus is a 100% bonus to your buffed loyalty, after logging 240 hours of ingame time sworn to your current patron.

Base loyalty of 260, with 7s on, loyalty should buff to 310.

ZERO LOYALTY BONUS
8.9% + (7% * 310) =
8.9% + (21.7%) = 30.6% pass up rate from hunting, with zero loyalty bonus. At 100 million XP per day, you should theoretically pass up 30,600,000 XP per day.

MAXED LOYALTY BONUS
8.9% + ((7% * (310 + a 100% loyalty bonus)) =
8.9% + (7% * (310 + 310)) =
8.9% + (7% * 620) =
8.9% + (43.4%) = 52.3% pass up rate from hunting, with maxed loyalty bonus. At 100 million XP per day, you should theoretically pass up 52,300,000 XP per day.

Over a week's time, at 100 million per day,

a zero loyalty bonus would result in 214,200,000 XP passed to your patron

a maxed loyalty bonus would result in 366,100,000 XP passed to your patron

Keep in mind, these numbers are theoretical, in that we haven't proven them over a long period of time. Also, and this is the cool part, 93.75% of that 150 million plus difference from having a higher loyalty bonus is going to get passed up through your patron to HIS patron, along with any extra "free" XP generated from your patron's loyalty bonus, and so forth.

Dave_Mustaine · Post by **Dave_Mustaine** » Thu Jul 03, 2003 5:08 pm

Pee-Wee wrote: Are you telling me it DOES cap on how much XP I pull from vassals, but does not cap on how much I pass UP to my patron??

Yes, it does cap at around 200 buffed when taking into account your "Pass-through rate". Which means, how much of your vassals xp do you give your patron. (93.75%). It does not cap on your DIRECT hunted passup, but as I just told Seabrook, there is little short-term effect on raising it.

I'm taking this data from http://www.darkisles.com/ac/Joining.html

BuffedLoyalty...Passup%
180.................15%
200.................16%
220.................17%
240.................17%
260.................18%
280.................19%
300.................19%
320.................20%

And so on up, endlessly. When I entered 500 into the "Buffed Loyalty" field, it went up appropriately, (26%, pretty decent), so it does have NO cap. But as you can see, its not an amazing jump.

Oof · Post by **Oof** » Thu Jul 03, 2003 6:09 pm

It depends on the math they used in the calculator on the darkisles site. The only equation I have ever seen in print is the 8.9% + 7% per 100 points of loyalty that was posted in Crossroads of Dereth a long time ago. The equation may have changed during a patch somewhere, I'm not sure. The (very) limited tests I have done with Borg agree with the higher numbers for the hunted pass up XP, but I need to hunt for a longer period of time to verify that.

Since they changed the way XP is passed now, so that larger chunks of XP are passed up more infrequently, my tests may have been skewed.

I took Borg and his vassal Another BM hunting (both are my characters so I could watch tank's XP meter on the monitors). Borg had no other vassals on at the time. BM's loyalty buffs to 300 and his loyalty bonus is maxed. When Another BM was showing 4 million per hour from the fellowship, Borg was showing 6 million per hour, so that goes along with the calculated 50% pass up Another BM should have. I only hunted for a million or so though, so the numbers could be off because of XP that was already in the patron's XP pool.

I will try to take Borg and Another BM hunting for a longer time and try to finally prove or disprove this so we all know a good answer, based on real XP results.

Compadre · Post by **Compadre** » Thu Jul 03, 2003 6:16 pm

i'm going to untrain item tinking and spec loyalty.

Griffmar · Post by **Griffmar** » Thu Jul 03, 2003 8:31 pm

Further complicating any passup numbers are the concepts of "adjusted loyalty" and "adjusted leadership". Leadership is fairly well understood, mostly because it caps out at a relatively low number (approx. 163, as noted on the chain forums already). But a character's adjusted loyalty is affected by the number of online hours that character has been sworn to his/her current patron. At 240 online hours, the adjusted loyalty bonus is +100%, doubling your effective loyalty skill.

So when you figure that your loyalty skill is being run through a % bonus, and your patron is applying a % bonus to the passup he receives (up to 125% of what you send him/her), those loyalty points really can add up.

Some good sites for delving deeper into loyalty/leadership calculations (assuming patches haven't significantly changed the math since the construction of the sites):

http://ac.xrgaming.net/index.php3?libra ... AndLoyalty
http://rain.prohosting.com/obp/calc.html

Seabrook · Post by **Seabrook** » Fri Jul 04, 2003 3:27 pm

Your base Loyalty is now 250!

PUT ME ON THE LIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Khaz-Modaan · Post by **Khaz-Modaan** » Fri Jul 04, 2003 3:35 pm

if I wasn't changing my template around, i would blow them out of the water

for now, I'm content to be in the top 10 or so