The Order of Hyssop and Trout discussion thread

Da-won · Post by **Da-won** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 2:02 pm

I do think this is a good proposal BUT my concerns are: the food chain passup xp has definately dropped. I can't believe i didn't have internet service for a week and a half and still passed quota. Many guys/gals in the chain now are basically borderline with quota, or are failing. It wasn't this bad when i joined, but doesn't seem to be getting better. Can the managers handle the added work? will new mangers be assigned to the Order? and will the excisting Food Chain suffer for the added administration requirement of the Order?

I do want to get back to the XP i used to make from the chain, and i think this proposal could help. At the same time i understand that computer problems, moving web sites, has made it harder for some to make quota, but 6M passup is not hard to make for whatever reason you have.

So i'm up for triing it as long as the 2 other chains won't suffer.

Going off topic now:

I also hunt alot less now cause of bordem, we cant beat the afk macroers in dungeons, and they don't want us in thier fellows. DV is not worth me going out there to hunt alone.

So basically, any high level mages who would like an xbower beside them out in DV gimme a tell. i prefer smaller fellows just cause xp is higher.

Aslo questing more might help with my bordem, so gimme a tell. thnx. I'm willing to learn a quest and lead it once a week if there's one thats in popular demand.

Da-won

Post by **Panzerfaust** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 2:33 pm

Da-won, you're right. We had two nasty breaks and at the same time, we were moving. Then people couldn't update acstats on the old server.

Not a good month.

however, things are on the way back to normal.

Oof · Post by **Oof** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 3:16 pm

Da-won, you asked some valid questions. I have also noticed the XP has seemed very sporadic lately (remember, the chain managers are members too!

) Like Panzer pointed out, there were a couple of chain breaks. Those took WAY too long to fix. We are still in the process of switching to the new database for ACStats because of update issues with the old one. Many of our current members have not yet downloaded the new chain reg file (everyone see my sig if this applies to you). Also, don't forget that Monkey Island was broken for a week or so.

The XP has been better the last few days. Once everyone gets switched over to the new chain page, and updates are being done regularly, things will be a lot easier to track.

Re: the managers workload and adding new managers. If it is needed, adding additional managers is an easy thing to do. (I have more to say about managers, the chain, and member response, but will make a separate post later. I don't want to wander too far off-track from your thread's topic.)

My only real concern is whether the 126ers who stay where they are now will suffer an XP loss. That one is hard to tell. My guess is that some of the 126ers *might* suffer; some will definitely see an increase in quota. Those who would like to meet a higher quota should see an increase in their XP, because everyone below them will be meeting 12M, not 6M. The ones who might suffer an XP loss are those 126+ who stay in the 6M section (but I'm not convinced they will see a loss either). The way they might drop some XP is if someone who was a massive XP vassal moves into the other section. I don't know how many people that might apply to.

One concern is the poor guy/gal who is at the bottom of the 12M, the one who is sitting on top of the 6M section. He has a higher quota above, but lower producers below. If the chain votes to implement the new higher quota section, I will volunteer Oof (if needed) to sit in that spot, so that should alleviate any concerns there.

Re: hunting in DV. I think there is usually a fellow of LDers there somewhere around 43 69. My advise to EVERYONE in the clan, chain or otherwise, is to load Meginjarder and use the @i chat to find out where everyone is (see my sig for the link). Even if no one is hunting in DV at the moment, all it usually takes is sending a "@i who wants to go fellow in DV?"

Personally, I think the new, higher quota section of the chain is a good thing, as long as it is optional to join. We have lost a few people over time because they wanted a chain with tougher requirements (tougher requirements=higher XP). If we add this, we will then offer:

1) An easier chain (the Casual Chain) for those clanmates who want a chain, but don't want strict quota requirements

2) A "regular" chain (the Food Chain) for those clanmates who want an XP chain, but don't want it to run their lives

3) A tougher chain (the Order of Hyssop and Trout) for those clanmates who are want considerably more XP and are willing to work for it.

Heatmiser · Post by **Heatmiser** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 3:29 pm

All valid points. Its up to everyone to consider all those situations and then decide if it will make it a better chain in the long run.

I think it will, so I voted accordingly.

Another thing to consider about being the lowerst guy in the Order is this:
He'll still be on top of the Food Chain, so while the xp may not be as good as those at the top of the Order, its still not going to be bad. Also, consider the fact that its 126 to enter. There will always be people in the FC pushing more than quota. Even those who push enough to meet Order reqs but are not 126, so must remain in the FC. Also, as new members hit 126 and are invited into the Order, there will always be new 126s on the bottom. Nobody will be there for long.

Kitoko · Post by **Kitoko** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 5:21 pm

why not keep the Order a part of the food chain and not a whole different xp chain? just have the 126's that are a part of the Order higher up near the top of the food chain, and the 126's that wish to stay in the food chain under the lowest 126 of the Order? they'll have the added benefit of the xp generated by the food chain, plus the Order xp added (probably means that they might have to add more but the numbers could be calculated out im guessing).

Oof · Post by **Oof** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 6:32 pm

That's the what we really meant Kitoko. It isn't really a separate chain, but rather, a "new section" above the current top. Same people, different positions in the chain, with higher reqs for the top ones.

El-Tazar · Post by **El-Tazar** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 6:45 pm

Guys given the server instability of late (last 2 months)
its totally understandable that xp has dropped.
I personally have been stuck in game on both Fri & Sat night
for the last 4 weekends in a row!!!!
Thats gotta hurt exp!!
Also as mentioned by our beloved

There have been
a few chain breaks lately.
I really do think that now is not the time to up quotas.
Wait until the servers are slightly more stable
Then you will have my votes and my underpants if you wish

Cheers
El formerly known as Coocoo

Apothem · Post by **Apothem** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 7:24 pm

i agree with El-Tazar lets give time to time and see if servers ''get better'' no need to hurry things and get them worst...

Btw El-Tazar i think i speak for all of us...please keep your underpants on...

Kitoko · Post by **Kitoko** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 8:34 pm

id be interested when i hit 126, or in about 1.2 bill xp. that will help me work on getting my wep tinkering skill maxed out, which will be nice.

Lucky Strike · Post by **Lucky Strike** » Tue Mar 18, 2003 12:23 am

12 million is too damn high!!

Trekman · Post by **Trekman** » Tue Mar 18, 2003 2:20 am

I do not deny the idea completely - but in my opinion this is the worst of all possible times to invent it :

1) Server instabilities (as already mentioned).

They have been going on quite some time now, and nobody can say for how long they will remain that bad.

Stable servers will probably make it easier to pass the 12 mil.
But stable servers also raise the average XP passup again which in return makes a higher quota less important.

If people have difficulties now to reach 6 mil due to hours of being stuck in world or (as happened to me recently) 1.5 days without being able to login - how could they possibly reach 12 mil ?
Remember that lvl 126+ does not protect from those instabilities

I know - the 12 mil. are only voluntary. But do not underestimate the group dynamics you start with that "voluntary quota".

2) Monster Rebalancing

The next (2 - 3 ?) months will show a significant change in individual difficulty (based on player template) and XP outcome of monsters. Nobody can say now which influence that will have on *any* chain.

People will probably have to re-evaluate and adopt their hunting habits, which usually means more exploring and testing, but less XP.
The frequently heard "Its easy to make XX millions in a fellowship in <thisdungeon> or <thatarea>" might not be true anymore after next patch - until other <thisdungeon>s or <thatarea>s are starting to be camped.

And even if all that Rebalancing does not have a real effect on current hunting and XP - it is a time of uncertainty which should not be complicated by changing a chain policy that is not even old yet.

Apart from these two points I am mulling over the fairness of such a system.
If someone passes (average) 15 mil. up but does not want to be forced to 12 mil. (for whatever reasons - its his right) he still remains in the 6 mil. FC.
Another one is in "Order" and passes up his minimum of 12 mil. repeatedly over time. So he has more benefit (due to higher chain position and higher quota between that other toon and himself) but contributes less to the chain than that other one.

Apothem · Post by **Apothem** » Tue Mar 18, 2003 8:42 am

I agree completly with Trekman, no time to change things, let the Chain and the ''Game'' be stable, i think removals and insertions should be more important at this time then any quota change, cause there are people waiting to get out and others to get in (like me) and are waiting for sometime now, basicly i think we should get Chain to work 100% and afterwards we think about changing quota or any other Chain function.

Naraku · Post by **Naraku** » Tue Mar 18, 2003 9:18 am

Lucky Strike wrote:12 million is too damn high!!

12 million might be high if you have 2 characters in the Order...if you have 1 character in the Order, it will take 4 hours/week of hunting (way less in DV) to make that quota. This is a chain and if 12 million is to high, you can always stay in Food. Obviously there are people that are dedicated enough to pass up these 12 million (and most of them are already making more then those 12).

I understand that 12 million can be to high for some people but there is an alternative and there are people that really want to make 12+ pass up. Currently there are people that want to make more XP and are mixed up with people that barely make 6 mil pass up (note: I'm one of those that just make quota). I think it's unfair for those that hunt like a madman and generate tons of XP while there are others failing too often yet gain huge amounts from the chain...

Dont take this personal, like I said, I'm one of those 'slackers' that just make quota (because of work) . However, you have to understand, its unreasonable for those that play 4 hours a day instead of 4 hours a week.

Apothem · Post by **Apothem** » Tue Mar 18, 2003 10:52 am

Naraku wrote: I think it's unfair for those that hunt like a madman and generate tons of XP...

Dont you think its unfair for those who hunt like madman's and their quota is 6 mills. and might not gain much more then that and still make more Xp that what needed to achieve quota and make 126+ gain the xp they do?

Naraku wrote: while there are others failing too often yet gain huge amounts from the chain...

Dont ever forget that the Chain starts from below,why should 126- get fewer Xp then others? or 126+ more Xp then lower lvl's?

If they fail they have to get booted and themselfes know they failed and changed it in the time the Chain Managers give him and after that remove him the quickly they can.

Naraku · Post by **Naraku** » Tue Mar 18, 2003 2:48 pm

I agree that it's unfair for 126- people but the most logical border would be level 126 or start a new chain.