If you're going to blow away all the work people did....

Lagmatic · Post by **Lagmatic** » Thu Nov 27, 2003 12:34 am

(and I TOTALLY understand that you had to)

The very least you can do is give people a "freebie" week.

Flanker · Post by **Flanker** » Thu Nov 27, 2003 3:41 am

Wait so you want us to pay for a week of your AC subscription

That doesnt make sense Lag

Lagmatic · Post by **Lagmatic** » Thu Nov 27, 2003 5:27 am

I knew I'd have to explain this to a flanker.

I meant zero everybody's xp-due column at the end of the week.

Nakamuro Zataki · Post by **Nakamuro Zataki** » Thu Nov 27, 2003 10:24 am

Lag, the columns are zeroed. It is like a clean sheet the first time you upload.

(This comment has nothing to do with the grace week request)

Lagmatic · Post by **Lagmatic** » Thu Nov 27, 2003 2:48 pm

Naka: that was my point. Some people (not me) had huge surpluses saved up so they could take some easy time. Those surpluses have gone poof.
I think you should re-zero anybody who is negative next wednesday.

That way, anybody who has gone and worked their butt off isn't screwed by losing a pile of XP. (or not as much anyway)

Nauscicaa · Post by **Nauscicaa** » Thu Nov 27, 2003 2:51 pm

isn't screwed by losing a pile of XP

noone is loosing any XP

Nakamuro Zataki · Post by **Nakamuro Zataki** » Thu Nov 27, 2003 3:05 pm

Lagmatic wrote:I think you should re-zero anybody who is negative next wednesday.

I dont have time to go in and clear individual records. If someone had a buffer so they could take it easy this week then PM a manager so they can verify it.

acaddict · Post by **acaddict** » Fri Nov 28, 2003 1:38 am

Not that this will affect me any, but i think we should wait for a full 21 day cycle to be ended to post any removal orders.

This seams to be the only way to be fair with everyone.

grimly fiendish · Post by **grimly fiendish** » Fri Nov 28, 2003 4:08 am

ok hello can you say holidays i dont have any family gatherings myself but i have to work my butt off during holidays to cover all the ppl who do and i already work 12 hour shifts as it is and this adds even more hours

and think of it this way you tell ppl to be in the chain they have to do a certain thing then you expect 5 times as much of them or they are out well an agreement goes both ways so why dont you stick to your own rules

Oof · Post by **Oof** » Fri Nov 28, 2003 4:43 am

When we place someone new into the chain, I wait 21 days before I post removal orders, in order to let them get a full 21 days worth of data into the database. Because we switched to a new database that did not have our previous 21 days of experience stored, I intend to wait 21 days before taking any removal actions. Granted, there may be an exception in certain circumstances (for example, when a character never updates his information), but that generally won't apply.

As long as people are hunting and showing some effort, I will wait 21 days before posting removal orders.

Lagmatic · Post by **Lagmatic** » Fri Nov 28, 2003 2:52 pm

Trekman · Post by **Trekman** » Sat Nov 29, 2003 2:46 am

I know chains are not everything and this is clan first and chain second and all that...........nevertheless I feel the urge to rant now.

Strangely enough I actually agree with Lagmatic

(hi Lag

), and I even go a step further.

Quite frankly I do not understand why the vast majority of chain members has to be punished when a few high-ranking clan members suddenly cannot get along anymore.
Especially those are punished who had (very) high quota surplus. By no means I was among the highest, but I was fond of my ~85 mil. (last time I checked old page).
I kept my XP bonus high because I knew I would not be able to play much until Christmas holidays due to work load.

Now, with the new page, I suddenly am at MINUS 4 mil.

Ok, I see how the database had to be resetted due to the new web-page.
Ok, I did read about the 21-day period before first removal orders, nevertheless the timeframe I had in mind (Christmas) is longer than 21 days.
I know - I know - my bonus would have shrinked anyway with the strong days falling out of the current period - but at least it would have shrinked over time, not gone to dust within one day of database change.

I believe the only fair solution for us uninvolved victims would have been to add an XP bonus of approximately the old surplus into the new database. Adding them manually is much work, but a script to transfer the data from the old to the new database should have been possible ???
I do not know how the ACStats database is structured, but at least the MJ database could handle a "starting value" other than 0 XP (as far as I checked it).

I guess I will have to live with this now.
But I will not be able to limit or re-schedule my participation in a multi-million-dollar customer project just to be able to work on quota.

And as a sidenote to Naus : I know nobody actually "lost" ingame XP. I just cannot help the feeling of "been honest for nothing".
If I had been a slacker and only a bit above quota (or failing at all) I would have had the same quota of -4 mil now. But no, I tried to be a good chain member and worked on my quota in advance before slacking due to RL. So I sort of feel stupid and "stolen from" now.

Lagmatic · Post by **Lagmatic** » Sat Nov 29, 2003 3:09 am

Trekman wrote:Strangely enough I actually agree with Lagmatic (hi Lag ), and I even go a step further.

Lemme go outside and see if the dead are rising from the grave, and the seas are as of blood....

Flanker · Post by **Flanker** » Sat Nov 29, 2003 4:05 am

Oof · Post by **Oof** » Sat Nov 29, 2003 4:05 am

Trekman, even though I may not always agree 100% with everything you post I always look forward to reading your posts because they are well thought it and your logic is sound. Or, I should say your logic is sound, except for this time.

Trekman wrote,

Ok, I did read about the 21-day period before first removal orders, nevertheless the timeframe I had in mind (Christmas) is longer than 21 days.
I know - I know - my bonus would have shrinked anyway with the strong days falling out of the current period - but at least it would have shrinked over time, not gone to dust within one day of database change.

I believe the only fair solution for us uninvolved victims would have been to add an XP bonus of approximately the old surplus into the new database. Adding them manually is much work, but a script to transfer the data from the old to the new database should have been possible ???

Unless you are talking about us lengthening the quota reporting period to be longer than 21 days, adding the old XP bonus back in, only to have it age out in 21 days anyway, would serve only as an exercise to keep Zataki busy. I suspect his movie making keeps him busy enough.

None of the XP from the old database will still be active three weeks from now.

I do agree that the few people who were not making quota now have an unfair "bonus" in that their XP debit was reset to zero with the move to the new database. The people who had huge XP credit balances have a full 21 days in which to build up those huge balances again, or not. Both of my characters went from having comfortable XP credit balances to either barely passing or barely failing. It is disconcerting to see that, however, adding back in some number just to make me feel better is, I think, an unfair request to make of Zataki, who we kind of forced out of his semi-retirement. If it would have a lasting positive impact on the chain to do that I would be asking for that to happen as we "speak", however, since the numbers would go away again 21 days from when they were added to the database I don't see a benefit.