Removed for UCM

Oof · Post by **Oof** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 2:06 am

Drak Falger was removed from the chain for running UCM in the one of the olthoi dungeons.

There probably isn't much to be said beyond that first sentence. The purpose for this post isn't to draw attention to Drak per se, it's to let people know what happened, for those who might be wondering, and also to serve as a notice to others of what can happen.

Drak, if you work things out with the HC and they give us the go ahead, you can rejoin the chain if you like. Panzer just put up a post outlining the changes in the macro policy for the clan. Read that for additional information. I wish I could tell you that your removal was an accident, but it wasn't.

Dave_Mustaine · Post by **Dave_Mustaine** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 3:17 am

Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 9:51 pm Post subject: Last Dynasty - Official ACM Policy Change and UCM Procedure

Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 8:08 pm Post subject: Lost key vassel.

Dax · Post by **Dax** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 4:27 am

If LD is so against macroing, why not just ban programs like El tank and the other macro program helper? That way we can be assured that our clan is clean. I think it can be done just like how ruthless was banned from el tank. So perhaps we could just ask el gar to block the enitre LD clan? Just a suggestion.

Oof · Post by **Oof** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 5:04 am

Grr, this argument gets old.

LD isn't against macroing per se. It's against UCM and, until tonight, ACM in dungeons (and still is, depending. Read the post on the change to macro policy very closely.) It is not, and never has been, against the clan CoC to run in ACM mode outside where it won't cause grief for anyone; therefore, asking Elgar to add LD to the non-combat monarchy list would be way overkill.

grimly fiendish · Post by **grimly fiendish** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 5:52 am

im not argueing for allowing UCM at all in this post which should be easy enough to see but i thought i should say it anyway to be sure

ok i think maybe ya should make it repeat UCM'ing that gets a person booted considering winkle and youkay monarchy memebers are part of this clan i mean alot of the worst macroers came from those 2 monarchies and now alot of them dont care because they already macroed all the skills they had to infinite for those of us lower down who see high level chain memebers that macroed like mad it might seem like they get rewarded with top chain spots for it while the new guy that has to run to the bathroom gets the boot

once again im not saying UCM is alright or good or that anyone should do it at all so dont bother posting anti UCM posts in reply

Flanker · Post by **Flanker** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 6:00 am

Grim,

The policy stands as it is. It has been hard trying to catch or remove violators of the CoC but I can assure you we are trying and will continue to do so.

Top of the chain does not specifically mean the most XP.

People with multiple members in the chain will state that they see a larger xp production per day in the middle of the chain that in the upper part of the chain.

Part of the reason for having pushers in the chain is to allow the people at the top to give back to the chain that helped them get where they are today.

That is why they fellow with the pushers who are stationed at the bottom of the chain and go hunt their backside off to push xp up from the bottom.

Starting at the bottom of the chain is always rough, but you do move up, and more people come under you, and not everyone that reached the level they are today macro'ed their way there.

There was an instance a long while ago with a select few people that caused an uproar in the macro scene. That has since been taken care off and put behind us.

We are moving on to the future now, and to what will make this the best clan for everyone and the best place for people to be.

There is always going to be the Pro/Con argument to Macro's but those situations are worked out as the come up.

The new policy is far more lienent that previously, and we feel its a better all around policy for people inside and outside the clan, to play the game the way it makes them fun for them.

Oof · Post by **Oof** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 6:06 am

[Edit by Oof: I deleted my second post immediately below this one that was a duplicate post. I figured the first post wasn't necessarily filled with wisdom and there was absolutely no need to make anyone read it twice.

]

grimly, back when it wasn't against the CoC to UCM it was acceptable behaviour and, yes, SOME of the high levels macroed. Some of us didn't either, and yet have still reached fairly high levels. It isn't any harder for folks to level up now than it was two years ago, in fact it's a lot easier now. I know for Oof, his level is time in the chain and time in the trenches. None of which changes that UCM is against the CoC and that people will be removed for it if it is proven they are running an unattended combat macro.

(Since my reply isn't an "anti-macro" reply I figured it would be okay to post it.

)

Dax · Post by **Dax** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 6:14 am

"The new policy is far more lienent that previously, and we feel its a better all around policy for people inside and outside the clan, to play the game the way it makes them fun for them."

-- Just to play devils advocate here, I don't believe this is true. Just ask the guy that got booted without knowing the LD codes were gonna suddenly start to be enforced after near 2 years of neglect. But I guess an example has to be made from somewhere.

Flanker · Post by **Flanker** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 6:31 am

There used to be NO UCM period and NO ACM in dungeons. Now there IS ACM allowed in dungeons. That I would say would be more lax than the previous.

Because the actions as the result in failure to complie with the CoC has been made more efficiant does not mean that the rules are harder. Non-complaince has been tuned. Hence the reason for the swift removal.

Flanker · Post by **Flanker** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 6:32 am

Going to bed Downy

Will answer any more questions you have in the morning

Night

Flank

Muneman · Post by **Muneman** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 8:06 am

If El-Tank is used properly it can be a wonderful tool to help everyone level there tunes. I want to point out that El-Tank is not just for ACM macroing. There are many useful tools to help people maximize on Kill ID's, Buffing to make life easier, Finding Majors/Minors, Travel Routes, etc. Banning El-Tank will only hurt the clan not help it. If the game is played strategically then UCM is not necessary. It's pretty simple you don't want problems don't UCM. EL-Tank's like a gun, guns don't kill people people kill people.

grimly fiendish · Post by **grimly fiendish** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 8:08 am

i think i should restate that im not argueing for macro's as you guys didnt seem to get that also im not saying that any part of the chain is better or complaining about how much exp i get or anything of the kind

im saying maybe you should give a warning first in case ya dont know all the facts or give a little more insight into what your proof is

also to say some ppl in the monarchy did UCM before turbine said no doesnt help the feelings of the ppl who couldnt hunt anywhere on monkey island for the months before that

turbine saying UCM is wrong isnt what makes it wrong its wrong because of the affect it has on other ppl so all the monarchy memebers who macroed before the BAN are just as bad or worse than the ones you will catch now if you dont kick out past macroers then you should at least give a little slack to ones ya find now in case its not what it looks like

Kazsam · Post by **Kazsam** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 8:44 am

Personally i see no problem with ACM in dungeons, as unfortunately all other monachy's do it.

So am I to assume all those people that recently left, from there own honesty, regarding acm in dungeons, will be contacted and asked to rejoin

Seems very unfair to suddenly change the rules AFTER they all left........

And grimly fyi people at the top of the chain still had to work there way up there, Was at least 20 people above kazsam when i joined up 14 mnths ago.

Ive worked my way up, not through outlvling my patron, (thougheventually when a couple others lower than me requested a move i did also a couple spots) but through people leaving, and generally leaving to go to chains with what , at the time. seemed like more xp.

Us people at the top have sat in the chain through both the good and bad xp so imo have earned our spots........ and as Oof stated quite often, my char in the middle gets the higher amount of xp daily.

I also have a char, which was 5 from bottom, getting less than 10m a day,though already she has moved up due to new peeps joining.

So be patient, or join a xp whoring chain like ruthless, rather than being part of a family and lvling slower

I chose family over Xp chain only monachy and I done ok

grimly fiendish · Post by **grimly fiendish** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 9:39 am

wow not to be mean but do any of you even read a post before ya respond??

MY POSTS ARE NOT ABOUT MY CHARACTERS
MY POSTS ARE NOT ABOUT XP OR A LACK OF XP
MY POSTS ARE NOT COMPLAINING ABOUT MY PLACE IN LINE ON THE CHAINS
MY POSTS ARE NOT COMPLAINING ABOUT BEING A LOWER LEVEL THAN ANOTHER'S ON A STAT SITE
MY POSTS ARE NOT ABOUT HOW YOU GOT WHERE OR HOW MUCH YA HAD TO WORK FOR ANYTHING

THEY ARE SIMPLY ABOUT WHAT I WROTE THEM ABOUT
whats that you ask?
try reading them

Kazsam · Post by **Kazsam** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 10:57 am

grimly fiendish wrote:wow not to be mean but do any of you even read a post before ya respond??

MY POSTS ARE NOT ABOUT MY CHARACTERS
MY POSTS ARE NOT ABOUT XP OR A LACK OF XP
MY POSTS ARE NOT COMPLAINING ABOUT MY PLACE IN LINE ON THE CHAINS
MY POSTS ARE NOT COMPLAINING ABOUT BEING A LOWER LEVEL THAN ANOTHER'S ON A STAT SITE
MY POSTS ARE NOT ABOUT HOW YOU GOT WHERE OR HOW MUCH YA HAD TO WORK FOR ANYTHING

THEY ARE SIMPLY ABOUT WHAT I WROTE THEM ABOUT
whats that you ask?
try reading them

Does this mean you have no opinion of your own then