I think OH quota should be upped

Compadre · Post by **Compadre** » Sat Jul 19, 2003 12:00 am

I hadn't been able to get in for nearly 3 weeks and made up 3 weeks worth of quota in 5 hours of dedicated hunting.. Since the OH is supposed to be our elite chain, why not make it somewhat more challenging? 20-30m a week passup shouldn't be difficult for anyone who hunts much.

Thorgrim · Post by **Thorgrim** » Sat Jul 19, 2003 2:52 am

*sigh* GREEEEEEEEED!!

Why dont' we make it 125% pass up, and watch the upper guys sqirm, and die from dried out eye balls, and lack of sleep, or lets REALLY start to encourage UCMing again! Hell, there's no need to spend time with your REAL vassals. who needs them anyways. I know I spend so much time in dungeons, when I have to go out and recomp........I NEARLY GO BLIND!

Opinions are like assholes.........everybody's got one, and this is simply mine. I disagree with upping the level of pass up. And if you look at my numbers, you'd see I'd have no problem making 20 mill pass up, I'm sure. (I might be wrong, but hey?)

I disagree, some peeps in chain actually like to play this game from time to time without having to sit at the monitor every minute of their time pressing the delete button while playing.

And, I guess this is a personal matter, as a family man with a few other responsiblities as it is, I'm very happy with the #'s I'm putting across, and receving from the chain. Any one who isn't happy with the FREE (let me repeat it....FREE) exp's they are getting, are simply GREEDY! This isnt' an insult, its a fact! Again, nothing personal against anyone. Just my 5 cents worth. (not worth much, but its my 5 cents)

Thorgrim

Lagmatic · Post by **Lagmatic** » Sat Jul 19, 2003 3:40 am

Thorgrim: anybody who is 126+ (a requirement for OH) can hit vod and do entire weekly quota, from scratch, in about an hour.

I don't think upping one hour of work to say, two hours, is going to affect your ability to converse with vassals.

As for greed. Dude. You're in a CHAIN. You're in the HIGH OUTPUT portion of the CHAIN.

Pot. Kettle. Black. =)

DL · Post by DL » Sat Jul 19, 2003 3:46 am

I agree Thorgrim.....MANY of us already are earning and passing up way more than the required quota.

Compadre....you yourself in another post stated you only hunt enough to meet quota....if you can only meet 12 m...why would you insist EVERYONE be given a higher quota when you yourself adds NO more than what is required into the chain?

I hunt tons...but if for some reason I want to do some r/l things or take a vaction once a year...I'd like to know I can and not feel forced to have to powerlevel in VoD......VoD gets OLD!!!.....real old...I like to hang out...have fun...quest a little and then when I feel like hunting for uber xp...do it cause I feel like it..not cause I am forced.....

The only thing I can see that raising quota would do is take the fun out of our chain for many plus prevent well deserved/hard earned promotions from taking place since higher quotas would prevent that.

Thorgrim · Post by **Thorgrim** » Sat Jul 19, 2003 4:01 am

GIVE THAT WOMAN A PROMOTION!!!

DL I agree with you TOTALLY. And VoD does get WAY old, as lets face it, I'm no mage........and VoD well......ITS A BITCH! And Even though I like to fellow, I hate having to run around looking for one. As for Compadre, Weren't you failing quota Miserably? (no pointing fingers here, but pc problems happens to everyone from time to time and.......had it been 20 30 mill, might have been much harder to catch up.

And Lagmatic, Iknow. I'm a whore. But you whores can judge me, cause what can you say when YOU'RE a whore?? Nothing.

Thorgrim

Thorgrim · Post by **Thorgrim** » Sat Jul 19, 2003 4:04 am

OHHHHHHHHHHHH, and I dont' have any doubt in my ability to meet any requirements this chain sets. But for the poor dudes and dudettes who don't want to do without sleep like I do, and can barely hit 100%, well ya know. I'm all heart.

Thorgrim

acaddict · Post by **acaddict** » Sat Jul 19, 2003 5:08 am

Maybe if we all decide on a quota point above this one, we should just make a top dog chain! I was actually gonna spend way less on xp and try some new quests, but i am looking foreward to level 190!

Any xp requirement on a new chain link i would produce!! Bring it on! I think 80 million above pass-up would be appropriate hehe.

Lets get this top dog chain going hahahahhhah!

Oof · Post by **Oof** » Sat Jul 19, 2003 5:13 am

Raising the quota for the OH is something we need to look at, with moderation. It's something we've been looking at and talking about among the managers for a while now, but there have been other more pressing matters to take care of.

The OH was created to provide a higher output, more challenging chain environment for those chain members in LD who wanted something more than what the FC offers. While I agree with Thorgrim's and DL's sentiment (assuming I'm "getting it" right) that we don't want to make the OH members live and breathe nothing but chain, Lagmatic made a very good observation when he said, "You're in a CHAIN. You're in the HIGH OUTPUT portion of the CHAIN."

I think the XP currently coming from the OH is pretty good, and very stable. Long-term, it will be hard to beat anywhere on the server. Overall, our loyalty bonus is continuing to build, and people are generally raising their loyalty skill, both of which make more XP automatically.

What we the managers have been talking about, and I'll toss it out here since this thread has been started, is raising the quota by 3 million per week. The jump from 12 million to 15 million will probably barely be noticeable, effort wise, because 3 extra million is something nearly everyone is already doing anyway but it will result in a noticeable increase in the amount received by the time it passes through a few people. The other thing to keep in mind on this is the reason nearly everyone is already exceeding quota by more than 3 million per week is BECAUSE of the increased loyalty bonus and loyalty skill. Raising the quota to 15 million probably represents a lesser effort than we all put out when we first joined the chain at a 12 million quota.

I'm going to sticky this thread and ask for your input on raising quota by a touch.

Culticon · Post by **Culticon** » Sat Jul 19, 2003 5:30 am

Personally I would like to see the quota be 100% pass up . And the people that can't cut it put back down in the food chain. The problems is not havin the time to make quota as much as it is some people have too many toons in the chain. If your a weekend hunter only maybe the order is not the place for that person to be. 100% passup is super easy to achieve.

Say u get 2 billion from the chain in 3 weeks

all you have to pass up in 3 weeks time is 140 mil which is roughly your 7% that you lose from your vassal

Some people don't even lose a full 7% of the exp passup some are more like 5%

So now your lookin at only havin to pass up 100 mil in 3 weeks time

The OH is suppose to be high output ,kinda looks like high whining to me

Just my outake on it don't be offended I just think that if your gonna be in a chain you should have to log on more than 2 times a week. Atleast in one thats suppose to be a high output chain.

Oof · Post by **Oof** » Sat Jul 19, 2003 5:51 am

We won't go to a straight percentage quota. 100% is a lot harder to make than many people will be able to do, at least without killing themselves.

A 100% quota chain, let alone a 101% chain like some other places have, encourages macroing in order to make the massive amounts of XP that would be required. You can't go by the current quota numbers to get a guess as to what would be required either. Every time you get a really strong hunter, the quota would go up for everyone above that spot. It can get ugly very quickly.

As a point of clarification, you said:

Some people don't even lose a full 7% of the exp passup some are more like 5%

Everyone in the OH WILL lose 6.25%. The maximum amount of automatic XP passthrough you can possibly have is 93.75%. Granted, on the XP you actually hunt for, the percentage passed up will fluctuate based on loyalty, but the automatic passthrough is limited to 93.75%.

Culticon · Post by **Culticon** » Sat Jul 19, 2003 7:08 am

Well I was in the ballpark atleast lol

I am sorry but I don't see how makin up for 6.25% is all that hard even if if you double that 2 bil exp that the chain avg's every 3 weeks or 21 days. So if its 4 bil in 3 weeks from the chain you still only lookin at 280 mil passup you have to make yourself. 300 buffed loyalty you pass up what a min of 25-26% of your hunted exp total. So you would have to hunt in the neighborhood of alittle over 1bil yourself in a 3 week time frame(21 days)

So now take a look at what you have after those 3 weeks

1 bil exp that you earned yourself
4 bil exp from the chain
=
5 bil total in 3 weeks

As for the part about macroing well if they do they can't stay here so more than likely we won't see 4 bil exp anywhere in this chain

heck I don't know I am just throwin #$%# on the wall and seein what sticks hehe

I am sorry but when you can pretty much not even log in for 3 weeks and log in one day and make your quota thats just wrong. Especially in a high output chain.

Don't get me wrong I am not a bit upset with the way the chain performs as a whole. As far as I am concerned I thinks its the best chain on Solclaim with the best managers

I am just tryin to add to the brain storm here and see what happens to make it grow in the future.

Oof · Post by **Oof** » Sat Jul 19, 2003 11:56 am

I'm too lazy to try to real number myself right now, so I'm going to use your 1 billion hunted over 3 weeks as the example number.

In order to hunt for 1 billion over a 3 week period, you're talking about hunting for 333 million per week. I'm going to assume you're in a fellowship that's making 10 million per hour. Granted some fellowships makes more than that, but I'm going to use a number that is fairly easy to get, but then I won't allow any time for recomping, questing, helping with corpse recovery, finding someone to tinker your armor/weapon one more time, taking care of vassals, etc.

In a fellowship making 10 million an hour, you would have to hunt for 33 hours a week in order to make 333 million per week. A lot of people can't play for 33 hours a week. A lot of people would honestly have to play for quite a bit more than 33 hours a week because they can't average 10 million an hour and still take care of the other things that come up in game.

I think we will eventually get to where we need to go with the OH, but we'll end up getting there by taking smaller, more measured steps. I really appreciate the different ideas people put forward sometimes, and the different suggestions about ways we can do things. Some, I think are great and the managers would never have thought of them; some, we have thought of, discussed, and figured out they won't work for us as well as another way will. Switching to a straight-up percentage chain is one of those latter things, mostly because you lose control of the quota. We have no way to throttle it, or to make sure it isn't too much, too fast.

Thinking about this thread, BTW, I'm going to drop this one back down to being unstickied and post a separate thread about just "do we raise quota?" I think that might draw better attention since this one has gotten a little long already, but I want this thread open still because we have some good discussion going and you never know what's going to result from that.

Thanks Cult, and everyone for the feedback thus far. Who knows, maybe I'm wrong and a percentage chain will work (I don't think I'm wrong, but then again, it's very seldo that any of us like to think WE are the wrong ones lol.)

DL · Post by DL » Sat Jul 19, 2003 2:10 pm

100% passup quota would turn us into a chain like LSD.

If I wanted to compete as a macro and be foreced to play 24/7....I'd be there now.

Sure....the OH could produce better results...and it is getting better each day as loyalties are raised and more people start playing longer hours. However, we in LD/OH are not tied to our desks and I'm sure 99% of this chain likes this freedom since a good portion of us do have real life obligations. Especially those of use who have jobs to go to 40 hours per week. Then there are those of us with families too who need some quality time outside of the realm of AC. To anyone who has no R/L commitment this would be hard to understand and it likely makes those of us with other commitments, especially working class people look like slackers compared to someone who has no job and no other interest in life beside playing AC every waking moment.

We need to maintain a happy balance between AC and R/L. I for one have to work 40 hours per week....my commute takes another 10 hours of my week up due to 2 hours per day spent getting to and from my job. After 50 hours away form home, I would like to go in the game to relax and enjoy my spare time. I do not want AC to become work. I currently spend 20-30 hours per week in AC....and the only reason that happens is because my husband is also playing this game. We play together....if one or the other was not a player....those hours played would be drastically reduced. I've seen many families develope major r/l issues because of AC....many husband/wives fight beyond words over the time one spends in AC and have also seen many many school/college players fail their classes because of AC....then of course...there are those who just get completely burnt out from juggling too much of everything and then quit AC completely because there was no happy balance.

Not everyone can devote the same amount of time to AC....does that make them less important or valued in our chain?

Look at the size of our allegiance...also the size of our 3 chains.....we are HUGE.....do we pass up 300m per day...NO...however...we do steadily pass up FREE....that's right...FREE xp's daily......

...enough free xp's that we likely have the biggest chain on server....and we know it's definately the oldest and most stable.

Qaz · Post by **Qaz** » Sat Jul 19, 2003 2:18 pm

I will have to agree with DL as well. I also hunt alot and very hard, but only for an hour maybe 2 during the week and like 8+ hours on the weekend. But I do have r/l things to take care of like work, sleep and chores. Now as for that Top Dog Chain that was mentioned.....sorta seems like that is a way for you AC Ad to get moved to the top of the chain without having to be promoted.....just an obversation. And back to the matter at hand there are others here in all areas of the chain that are in contanst fail, upload, invalid, and or just barely passing. So what makes you think this will improve....except these people well just adjust to barely passing again.

Heatmiser · Post by **Heatmiser** » Sat Jul 19, 2003 3:09 pm

Im not sure about 24-30million but the quota definately needs raised.

When I came up with the plan for the OH, I envisioned a chain for our most prolific hunters. One that reward its members handsomely for their effort. Due to resistance to this idea in its truest form, what we ended up with was far below my expectations. The OH has never lived up to its potential as a high output chain.

I have requested on many occasions for the quota to be increased only to be shot down each time. I've been dicussing this issue with the rest of the management yet again and Im asking for support.

Ask yourself a few questions:

Is OH quota easy? (If the answer is yes, then its time for an increase.)
Do you really think its a high output chain populated by our most prolific hunters? (Hint: Its not.)

The OH was never intended to be for everyone. It was supposed to be challenging and only for those that could meet its high requirements.

What its turned out to be is a quota chain that every 126 chainer jumps into. The quota is easily met and some people have more than one character in it. (I always envisioned the quota for this chain to be hard for one, let alone two characters.)

I think its time for an increase in quota. Past time actually. As I said, not 24-30million, but some lesser amount that we could increase in increments until we make this chain what it always should have been.

I am proposing a 3million point increase to OH quota. (We are discussing it on the managers board.)

If you want a higher quota, by all means support the 3million incremental increase.