Order of Hyssop, Promotion Criteria.

[DL]

Every other chain that exists on this server makes any new member lv 126+ be placed at the bottom of the lv 126 members regardless of their lv at time of insertion.

Our managers have offered a way for those who think they have a right to be somewhere higher in the chain a chance to move up....slowly...but still a chance...it's a chance that none of the rest of us have because we are already established at our levels and not already 5 levels or more above our patrons.

It may not have the easiest requirement or the fairest for those who are already higher levels than almost everyone above them who have been here for a much longer time...but it's the fairest!

Try going to LSD and DEMAND to be placed where you THINK you are entitled to be! It just won't happen...you already know that!

I'm appalled at the ones who are screaming they have the RIGHT to be placed at the top of the chain above everyone else who have been here much longer...we worked hard and remained loyal to this chain and deserve to be treated fairly and not pushed to the bottom to make room for everyone who has surpassed us by being former members in other chains when the grass was greener.

Yes moving up will be slow....but at least the opportunity is there despite the fact that many of us don't feel you should have this ability to move above us.


Merciful...you state you been here since April 29th,.....I've been here a whole lot longer and have given a whole lot more to this chain at the moment....do I think you at lv 169 should just jump in and be placed above me because you have now decided the LD chain is the place to be?...NO!

We all may not agree on how placement/insertions should be done when moves are made after lv 126...but no matter how you look at it...this should be handled in the fairest manner that benefits EVERYONE not a select few!

As our chain grows and our members gain levels....being at the bottom is not a bad place to be....and no matter how you look at it...someone has to be at the bottom....what the heck is wrong with a new lv 126 insertion starting there? Don't forget or lose sight of the fact that All those above you were already there once before too!

[Oof]

Hi all. I haven't had much opportunity to read the boards and reply the last few days. I don't want you to think the managers don't hear or care about your opinions. I will probably have some time tomorrow to post something in here to address the concerns that are being voiced. I could post something now, but it is late at night when I get home from work, and it's later when I get to log on, check boards, etc. Especially on a subject like chain moves that can fan into flames quickly, I want the time to write something that (hopefully) says what I mean it to.

Tomorrow..

[Heatmiser]

Im gonna go ahead and clarify something at this point:
When we get this policy finalized, people who meet the reqs will be able to move up immediately. The 42 day thing is for your NEXT move up.

I feel like this policy will not only give everyone a fair chance to move into higher positions, but may also cause people to get in game and make some serious xp. The end results of both are good for the chain.

So here's where we're at so far:
Criteria for moving up in the OH
*3 lvls above your patron
*115% pass-up
*42 days between each jump

[anca]

/e agrees with DL

[Kazsam]

I agree with DL too, ive just had my 2nd char put in chain, so have one at the top and one at the bottom, and thats how i expect it to be, won't be long and other new peeps will be under me.

[Coji]

Here is how i see it. I think that the percent you pass up should judge how and when you deserve a move up higher in the chain, but only if you keep it that high once you move to your new spot. Though i believe the fact that one who has been with the LD chain for a long time like DL or myself, should be taken into account, it may be hard to judge the particular aspect of a member.

So so if someone could answer this question... Why the level requirment? To keep the chain stable? Or to appease those who are complaining at the bottom.

I like the chain how it is becuase i am at the top, but i know i have earned it. If you are brand new consider yourself lucky. I have had to stick it out in the chain to get where i am. I never had this chance.

[Oof]

As far as I know, no one is actively complaining. There has been the occassional question, and some discussion in this post, but no real ongoing complaints. I'll post something about this later, but I really need to log in and kill for a while or else all of that pent up aggression might come out in this post.

I'll answer some stuff on the boards after I've killed things.

[The Merciful]

would of replyed sooner but comp crashed and i got a session timed out error from these boards so i got to start from scratch again so here goes my third attempt at replying here.

"Try going to LSD and DEMAND to be placed where you THINK you are entitled to be! It just won't happen...you already know that!"

you missy are wrong there. i was in lsd's first formed chain as a walk on when the majority of his chain had already formed and i was placed by the top. then lsd reformed it again and i was placed by the top of the chain for the second time before i decided to come here. lsd did and still inserts who he wants at will. take a look at this post from howard hill about wraithblade getting boosted by the top of the chain out of the blue

http://www.urbandev.net/~xpchain/forums ... t=10&st=75

at the time before i joined the food chain i looked at the chain list and the 126's were mostly in order according to thier acstats. that was one main reasons i joined up.

while in the food chain i maintained 115%-125% passup%. imo high lvl hard workers deserve the consideration of being by same lvls.

DL,your not thinking about this on a broad scale. heres a figure for you. say i wanted to move 29 spots up the chain from where i'm currently at. to be in line with rest of the other levels around my leval. thats about 29 spots and around 10 promotions i would need to get there

10*42=about 420days
you say its about loyalty i say its about greed and you want to leech all that xtra passup% above quota from these new high lvl overachievers for as long as you can while they at the bottom get to rot.
thats not going to motivate someone like me to overachieve. i wouldnt be suprised if it discourages them from wanting to join

coji was saying something about having an additional passup% requirement for promotion. like around 120%-125% that would be a good idea. and the reward would be to beable to move up 10 spots to adventually get to be with the chars close to your lvl in a more adequate amont of time.

i hope i didnt seem offensive or come accross you guys in an unusual manner. i was once a former chain manger of a huge chain before and am just offering a bit of insight.

the chain mangers have a time consuming job thats takes away from being able to do corricular tasks of their own leisure ig. lets not over look things they do for us

i wont be commenting anymore on this subject unless asked to do so.
and i will deffinatley follow whats happening with this chain the next few days closely to decide if this is realy in my best intrest for my perticular situation

ps like oof said those that disaggree or agree about someones views,back them up with your reasoning.

[DL]

DL,your not thinking about this on a broad scale. heres a figure for you. say i wanted to move 29 spots up the chain from where i'm currently at. to be in line with rest of the other levels around my leval. thats about 29 spots and around 10 promotions i would need to get there

10*42=about 420days
you say its about loyalty i say its about greed and you want to leech all that xtra passup% above quota from these new high lvl overachievers for as long as you can while they at the bottom get to rot.
thats not going to motivate someone like me to overachieve. i wouldnt be suprised if it discourages them from wanting to join

First I just want to say that I DON'T agree with the proposal on how passups/moving up/promotions will be handled. So your calculations are meaningless to me but hold a good solid weight for those who proposed this promotion to take a good look at how it's handled.

I just merely disagree with INSTANT placement above those already well established in the chain. I am not the only one who feels that way and it has nothing to do with greed. It's called hard work on how I got there and being pushed to the bottom by new members who came from other chains is unfair. This subject has been discussed and beat up and down a wall many times. The managers clearly stated they get placed at the bottom the the lv 126 members.

HOWEVER

In all fairness to those who have high levels and are hunting and earning MORE than the REQUIRED Quota....I agree we should be rewarded and not forced to remain under those who simply log in long enough to meet quota and do nothing more than expected of them. They are passing....that is good...but it's not fair to those who hunt long hours and passup tons of xp under them. We should have a chance to get a promotion based on pass-up and time in the chain under our patron. The pass-up should not be based on Vassal passup......almost all those who have over 110% and above are 1...sworn under their patron for more that 240 game hours...2....macro'ing and many of them are UCM...the rest of us who hunt long hours are aware of how hard we hunt but we don't UCM so therefore don't have 240 hours or anything close to 115% vassal xp.

The managers says it's difficult but not impossible for a player who is NOT UCM to get 115% vassal passup...I say that is a crock of BS.

However...I do think 105%-110% and above the regular percent passup and NOT the mere 100% "YAY I made quota types" do deserve to be moved up after a certain length of time if they are making well above quota and clearly making the higher passup on a regular basis. These players do deserve to be given the opportunity to move above those who don't have the time, don't plan to ever hunt more than the 12 m quota, etc....these players hunt long hard hours with the exceptions of UCM...I do not feel anyone UCM'ing deserves the right to move...they are already breaking LD's CoC and also the games CoC....it's easy to pick out the ones who UCM in our chain however nothing is said and it's like the dirty little family secret that never gets talked about.

I don't look at anything with a greedly point and I'm sorry you think my wanting to make someone work to get placed above me as greedy...I do look at the broad pictures...however....many don't want to hear or get all bent out of shape when it's pointed out clearly that FAIRNESS to the majority is more important to the well being of the chain.....catering to a few higher levels and neglecting the ones who are the real CORE of the chain would be UNFAIR.

I too want to move up the chain....I hunt more and work harder than 50% of those above me including my own patron who barely plays and always is in upload status...I don't log on and just make my quota and then go away until it's time to make it again...I hunt as much as my r/l spare time allows. I don't UCM and work hard for the time I play. And yes...it often seems like work instead of fun play.....and I sometimes I wish I had the guts to UCM in some remote place just to make my game life and passup easier and have the higher numbers.....but I won't do it...I agreed to LD's CoC and also to MS/Turbines CoC.

So until our managers can determine a fair promotion method that does NOT reward those who UCM and those who join already many many levels above the majority of our chain BUT also find a fair way to promote those existing members too who work hard....I feel promotions should be as difficult as they can make it!

Our managers don't have an easy job....they try to make things fair for as many players as possible....sometimes their decisions are liked and sometimes they aren't.....for the most part I feel they do look as things with an objective mind.

This idea of how to do promotions or if promotions should even be allowed is going to be a tough call and yes...it could drive away a few who think getting promoted to the top of the chain in a quick enough manner is too slow for their likings....perhaps it will be a major loss...perhaps it may be a blessing in disguise.....no matter how we look at it....100% are not going to agree.....that is a fact of life!

[Stargren]

Okay, I'm thinking of joining, but my situation's a little odd. I'm now level 144. Now, here's the thing...I'm not a new applicant, BUT I have been gone for 7 months, so the OoH was formed while I was gone. I did, however, have an excellent track record for over 6 months on two separate characters in the main chain (LD Chain, then Chain of Command, then Food Chain).

So, I'm really a returning chain member. It's just been a while. Need to know which policy goes into effect if I come in. Thanks.

Edit: Nevermind, talked to Dave about it.

[acaddict]

I would like to set DL straight. I do not run a macroing program and keep a 150% pass-up. A lot of this is due to my personal vassals hunting with me!

If you look at the chain page, you would see the xp you are missing out on because i'm not closer to the top. I'm passing up as much or more than the top 10-15 and recieving 1/2 that xp.

[DL]

I would like to set DL straight. I do not run a macroing program and keep a 150% pass-up. A lot of this is due to my personal vassals hunting with me!

If you look at the chain page, you would see the xp you are missing out on because i'm not closer to the top. I'm passing up as much or more than the top 10-15 and recieving 1/2 that xp.

Ac....I meant no offense to you...geeesh..we all know you are an AC addict.....but you are also a RARE exception......and I never thought of you as a UCM nor have I ever been anywhere to obsrve you being one. Sorry if I offended you....it was never my intention.

[Heatmiser]

Im also going to have to disagree. As I said earlier 115% is indeed possible in this chain without UCM.

This chain really isn't all that productive to be completely honest. With this many guys over 150, we should be making astronomical xp. But we don't. Its mainly due to the folks who do the bare minimum to get by.

If you are looking to advance though, the bare minimum types are actually your advantage. As they will be easy to pass up. (And perhaps in passing them, you will motivate them to do better.)

I've looked that this issue and will be posting a new thread for further discussion.

[Oof]

And in passing them up, you now have downstream chain vassals that you were able to pass. What do you think that will do to the XP coming up to you, hmmm?

[acaddict]

Sorry DL, i wasn't offended. I was just was trying to make a point that 115% can be done by following Coc.

My other point is what Oof said. Why would you not want the big producers to advance and pass that xp closer to you? Level should have nothing to do with advancement. If a level 126 can produce more than me , by all means move that person ahead of me. Note: aint gonna happen!