My Vassals

Pee-Wee · Post by **Pee-Wee** » Sun Jun 29, 2003 3:49 am

Yesterday, unexpectedly, I was kicked from the clan. It was not done maliciously.

If you need to swear to someone to stay in LD, I will understand, completely.

Oof · Post by **Oof** » Sun Jun 29, 2003 4:15 am

Pee-Wee, I'm assuming that was done accidently. I can't imagine someone booting The Pee-Wee on purpose.

I don't remember who your patron was, but if perhaps he/she booted you because you failed to pay your vassal dues, I would be happy to let you swear to me, or post an app for the Food Chain.

If you were decide to vassal to me while processing into the Food Chain, I do offer a free no-risk trial period of vassalage, after which the monthly vassal fee goes up a gently 15% each month.

Flanker · Post by **Flanker** » Sun Jun 29, 2003 5:47 am

Uhhmmm....

Panz had asked me to log in and check a few things out for him.

I may have, and this is a BIG may have, typed

/alligiance boot Pee-Wee

I am not 100% sure on the matter for I was in a drunken stoop the whole time I was logged on. I was trying my best to impersonate Pantzer, but people kept on going, hey Panz you sure are sober today, you not been drinking your usual 40?

kerosene · Post by **kerosene** » Sun Jun 29, 2003 9:31 am

Just to clear up how Pee-Wee got "boot" from the clan.

Pee-Wee ask to be sworn around in the casaul chain, his patron did not have any available vassal slots open to take his new chain vassal so he drop Pee-Wee to be able to make the move.

Flanker · Post by **Flanker** » Sun Jun 29, 2003 10:20 am

Bah and here I was hoping it was me

IT WAS ALL ME MUUUHHAHAHHAHAH!!!

Phade · Post by **Phade** » Sun Jun 29, 2003 11:30 am

I have lots of spots pw if you and your vassals need back in the clan fast.
let me know

Keebler · Post by **Keebler** » Sun Jun 29, 2003 12:27 pm

I am also available if you wish to swear to me to get in the clan.

Keebler I

DL · Post by DL » Sun Jun 29, 2003 4:58 pm

Pee Wee...are you feeling all the luv?

Pee-Wee · Post by **Pee-Wee** » Sun Jun 29, 2003 11:41 pm

As I said, it was not malicious. I'm not saying anything was done intentionally to me. I do have a problem with how lightly it was taken though, and how quickly some made me into a villan.

As I tried to explain to Kero:

I think something should be put into the Chain CoC regarding this.

Just as I am expected to know if I have the XP to swear to my next patron before I break the chain, and just as I am expected to give notice before I break the chain; I think the same courtesy FROM the chain. This, not only effected me, but all my followers.

It's not the FACT that it happened, it's that we should not be so easy to pass it off without learning from the mistake.

Had this happened to someone with 14 vassals and 1,000+ followers, you might be thinking about it a little differently. Especially, if they had just started day one of a two week vacation, and had no idea it happened.

Though, somehow, I get the feeling I'M getting the bad rep now. That's quite a bizzar twist of events.

I asked to be removed from the chain, not the clan. It is true, I have been thinking of leaving LD, however, at this point in time, I was only making preparations to apply for the Food Chain.

Phred · Post by **Phred** » Mon Jun 30, 2003 2:02 am

unfortuneatley it is an inherent flaw in the system.. the rules are set up so that everyone in the chain acheives the correct passthrough rates, ragardless of weather have leadership or not... I untill receantly had leadership and was in the habit of only keeping 11 vassels, as was stated to me, (slightly modified becuase I otn remebre the exact wordign and only the gist of the conversation. with a little dramatic flair added in) even though my passup was impeccable (was mainting a 133% at the time) I had to abide byt he chain regulations simply beucse if they made and exception for one, everyone would clamer for the same....

sorry it sounds slightly unattached and @$$holeish.. but it part of the choices we make as players, to ask for removal from a non-vassel/patron-relationship segment of the clan, you either have to ensure that you have another way back intot he clan immediatly upon your removal or you and you followers have to live with the consequences...

and as for the lack of response from me regardign the situation.. the fact that you were out of the clan was brough to my attention but at the time I did not know why, the way it was actually ststed was as if you had left the clan of your own accord.. so I plainly stated that if you wished to talk about it you would either say soemthign in game or you would post here, but intill such a time as you did, I would maintail life as usual.

Pee-Wee · Post by **Pee-Wee** » Mon Jun 30, 2003 3:31 am

I completely understand the passup requirements. I understand the need to maintain a vassal count. I understand, in this circumstance, I could have easily sworn back to someone else.

However...

To be dropped from the CLAN without notification is what is at issue here.

I am not privy to what my patrons requirements are, and I wasn't standing beside them when the removal was done. If I had to wait for them to get together before I broke from the chain, then they should at least let me know when this was happening.

you either have to ensure that you have another way back intot he clan immediatly upon your removal or you and you followers have to live with the consequences...

Please, explain to me how I could have "ensured a way back into the clan immediately upon my removal".. If I didn't know when that was? To say that somehow I and my followers should have to "live with the consequences" that he could not take even 30 seconds to PM or @tell me is just wrong.

I slow or something? What am I missing here? Isn't this obvious to ANYONE??? Is this the standard you want the LD Chain to be setting? Someone... Please, for the love of God, back me up on this. I can't be the only voice of reason here. Or is this just going to be, yet again, another of the "Clan Solidarity" to the completely wrong?

I'm getting the idea from everyone, that they think I am pissed beyond beliefe, that I'm sitting somewhere with my arms crossed, pouting, stewing in my own juices. WHAT GIVES? Is THIS why people have stopped talking to me?

The simple fact is this:
1) I asked to be removed from CC to go to the FC.
2) I got kicked (NOT MALICIOUSLY! Jebus, how many times can I say that).
3) I talked to a chain manager to let them know, in a polite way, that this should be addressed in the chain CoC.
4) I posted a nice, non hostile, polite note to my vassals about this.
5) I even posted a polite clarification as to what issued I had with this.
6) Now I'm some leper outcast

I've had TWO people ask me "what was wrong", and, when I tried to explain, it went on deaf ears. They didn't want to hear about my concerns of the chain, they wanted dirt and to have gossip to spread everywhere.

How about a few of ya' talking to me before ya' go talking to each other about me.

I mean, my God, dare I even ATTEMPT to apply for the food chain now? Oh, wait, that's right... I can't.. I'M NOT IN THE CLAN.

*sigh*

Sassy · Post by **Sassy** » Mon Jun 30, 2003 4:02 am

Pee-wee, I totally understand what you're saying. But you weren't "kicked out" of the clan. You were chained around per your request. There is a difference. To post here saying you were kicked out, even though you threw in that " It was not done maliciously" disclaimer makes you sound hostile. There are so many other ways your original statement could have been worded.

Yes, your chain patron should have shown some common courtesy. I totally agree with that. But at the same time did you assume your chain patron had room to keep you?? Did you ever ask if you could stay as his/her vassal during the transition to the FC?

From what I can see, both sides have neglected their responsibilities in this issue.

Just my 2 pyreals worth.

Pee-Wee · Post by **Pee-Wee** » Mon Jun 30, 2003 4:51 am

Sassy, I guess the problem lies with symantecs, and people automatically thinking in the negative.

I don't mean to split hairs, but my wording was exact, and intentional. I never stated I was kicked "OUT", I was, however, kicked FROM the clan. And, by adding the "Not maliciously" part, I thought I had made myself quite clear that there was no ill intent, and that all was well.

Now, as to us both neglecting our responsibilities...

I never said I expected him to keep me on. But, Sassy, I could not just break from him, that would have broken the whole chain. So, it was entirely in HIS hands as to how to approach the situation.

I simply stated that I deserved some sort of "heads up" as to when this would happen so I COULD go to my selected new patron.

I just thought it might be a good idea to address this in the CoC, so it doesn't cause a larger problem down the road.

Don't you recall how things went haywire when Kajun-Strike left without letting anyone know? The results are one in the same.

Sassy · Post by **Sassy** » Mon Jun 30, 2003 5:04 am

I agree...you did deserve a heads up. And yes...I do remember what happened when Ish and Kajun Strike requested removal. It messed up a bunch of us and made us quite unhappy. Unfortunately those of us down the line had no control over it. And you're right in saying that you could not just break from him without being labled a "chain breaker". If it had been me in the situation I would have been more "in his face" about it

and not left it up to just him. Everyone in the situation has to take some responsibility.

As for people automatically thinking negative. I'm one of the most positive people around and think good things about everyone probably far longer than most people would. In this case I did read the post negatively as many of us probably did. That comes from too much to do and too little time to pay close attention. But I still feel that you could have worded things very differently. You could have said 'hey guys, I've been chained around before I was ready, hang in there, we'll be back in LD before you know it". But that's just me

.

Lucky Strike · Post by **Lucky Strike** » Mon Jun 30, 2003 5:41 am

Here's the situation. Pee-Wee was sworn to Lucky Battle (on of my toons). I had instructions to have a different vassel swear to me. The new vassel was online and Pee-Wee wasn't online.

I had my 12 vassels and 11 of them are cross-server trades which means once I let them go they are gone forever.

I had to make a quick decision and unfortunately, I had to let Pee-Wee go in order to make room for the new vassel. Frankly, I was caught between a rock and a hard place.

Within 5 minutes Pee-Wee sent me a message (on one of my other toons) and I offered to allow him to swear to one of my other toons so he could stay in the monarchy until he had a new patron.

There is no question that Pee-Wee got screwed in the transition, but I didn't know what else to do.

I don't understand why Pee-Wee thinks himself the villan? He didn't do anything wrong and was removed from the chain as asked. He could have been (or maybe he was) back in the chain within a few minutes. I don't see you as a villan at all ... in fact, you were the victim. Unfortunately, I didn't know how to complete the transaction without creating a victim in the process. I tried to help you as soon as I found out that you still wanted to be in the monarchy.

Also, Pee-Wee said he should have recieved notice before being "removed" from the monarchy. At the time I released him I gave that quite a bit of thought. I assumed (obviously incorrectly) that his request to be removed from the chain was, in fact, notice to him that he'd be removed.

Pee-Wee wrote:To say that somehow I and my followers should have to "live with the consequences" that he could not take even 30 seconds to PM or @tell me is just wrong.

I don't believe you were online at the time otherwise I would agree completely. I agree that it would be common curtesy to send you a tell that you were removed. You sent me a PM before I had even come to the boards to post that the move was complete. Again, I assumed that your request to be chained around (I didn't know you were changing chains) was notice that you'd be released if necessary.

I am more then willing to learn from this situation if someone has any ideas. I am not taking this situation lightly. If you look at the post where I was removed from the monarchy (by someone far above me in the chain) you'd know that I think its just wrong. This removal was by your request and I offered to help you within minutes (after you sent me a tell).